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140 Evinrude - Carb? What are the correct spark plugs?
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tommytuttle



Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:26 am    Post subject: 140 Evinrude - Carb? What are the correct spark plugs? Reply with quote

I have a 1985 140 VRO. This season it has started cutting out, it will run but will give a serious sputter, as if 1/2 the motor is not running. It does not consistently run this way. some times it starts and runs fine, other times it starts with this sputter. I have replaced the fuel filter thinking it might just be some debris floating around. I've also pulled the plugs and cleaned and replaced (I was up north and no access to new plugs which I will try next time)

In my attempts at trouble shooting I have removed the spark plug leads while the motor is running on 1/2 and it seems to make very little differnce.

I bought the boat a couple of years ago and it has run fine although it did sit for some time.

I've read about seafoam, and I am going to try to give this a try to see if it cleans things up.

I've done some reading and it looks like I should probably take out the carbs and clean them. Can anyone give me advise on this process or point me to a source for a description?

What are the correct spark plugs and gap for this motor.

I'm wondering if this could at all be an electronic issue or a vapour lock in the built in gas tank?


Any assisstance would be a help.
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Tommy T
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Captain Walker
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:48 am    Post subject: Correct Spark Plugs, Evinrude 140 VRO Reply with quote

Champion QL77JC4, gapped .030, On ALL VRO/OMS equipped motors the "QL" suppressor plug is recommended.

Go2marine has them!

http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=70437F

Hope that helps with the spark plugs.
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boatScotty
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:02 am    Post subject: Evinrude 140 VRO running issues Reply with quote

Tommy T,

Well you have a fair bit of things going on.

The first thing I will address is that 90% of all carb/fuel problems are electrical. I have sung this one before, but there are more things that go wrong, more often, with the electrical system than anything else. If I have a choice and am not sure – I always go with electronic/electrical over fuel.

Having said that,

Seafoam is the real deal. I hate witch potions BUT this one has consistently saved me. You can do a poor man’s carb ‘rebuild’ (cleaning it up) by;
1. Remove the fuel line and put it into the can of Seafoam.
2. Disconnect coil, you are not trying to start the engine.
3. Crank the engine over until you figure you have pumped in Seafoam instead of fuel.
4. Reconnect the fuel line
5. Crank it over for maybe, 30 seconds
6. Install some new plugs
7. Start her up

I have had very, very good success with this procedure for engines sitting for years! Then use the Seafoam, double strength on your last run of the year.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:07 am    Post subject: Carb cleaning rebuild Evinrude 140 VRO outboard Reply with quote

Tommy,

I will bring in my other area of enjoyment. OK, small confession - I am not just a boat wacko - I am a vehicle wacko. I have owned over 100 vehicles and over 20 motorcycles (Including a Ural, Hodaka Combat Wombat, KZ1000P, Bultaco Pursang) and have learned a few things from these vintage machines.

Take a look here

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Motorcycle-Repair-837/Carb-Cleaning-3.htm

Carb Cleaning 101
By M. Shively

The elements of internal combustion engines are; correct fuel/air ratio, spark at right time, adequate cylinder compression.

Motorcycle and ATV carburetors have many passageways and openings to check and clean. Subtle to radical effects on engine performance occur when jets and passageways become obstructed. Vacuum leaks and carburetor synchronization also effect performance and should be checked and adjusted. The following procedures are a helpful guideline.

Carb Cleaning 101
Warning: Remove all rubber (Neoprene) parts before applying chemicals to carburetor parts. These parts usually include vacuum diaphragms, needle valves, o’rings, hoses, and other parts. Spray cleaners may damage these parts. Do not disassemble individual carbs from the carb brackets.

Air & Fuel Passageways: Trace individual fuel and air circuit passageways from beginning to end. Machines can only drill straight paths through castings to form passageways. A change of direction or angle means drilling additional connecting passageways. Access holes left by the drilling process are plugged with brass or bronze beads. Inspect and clean each passageway with spray cleaner, brushes, pipe cleaners, and compressed air. Many household items can be useful cleaning tools. Remove any discoloration and debris from carbs. Look for carb spray cleaner to exit from one or more passageways. Chase immediately with compressed air.

Jet Cleaning: Inspect jets by holding to light and look through them. You should see an unobstructed round hole. Clean the jets with one or more of the following; jet-cleaning wires, soak solutions, carb spray cleaners and compressed air. Re-inspect jets after cleaning and install when clear of obstructions. Some main jets have paper-like gaskets. Most have metal spacers between the jet and the emulsion tube. Some screw directly into a brass emulsion tube, which is machined for a 7mm wrench at its float chamber, exposed base.

Inlet Fuel Valve: Inspect the needle valve & spring. Press down the tiny metal rod that protrudes from the butt or float end of the needle valve. The spring should move freely and return the rod to its location. Check the needle valve’s seat area for a groove or other wear. It should appear highly polished. Some needle valve seats are rubber and wear may not be visible. Inspect the needle valve jet seat. You can clean the jet seat with Q-tips and semi-chrome polish if necessary.

Carb Body Castings: Blow air through the atmospheric vent holes located on the dome of each float bowl chamber. Air should exit via hoses or brass nipples. Inspect the emulsion tubes and passageways (cast towers that jets thread into) for discoloration and debris. Clean interior emulsion towers with a soft bristle gun cleaning brush. Clean each Venturi (main carb bore).

Needle Jets & Jet Needles: Clean the needle jets, jet needles, and emulsion tower (main jet screws into). Clean the emulsion tube (pipe between needle jet and main jet) (Main Jet may screw into emulsion tube). Jet needles are part of the throttle slides. See below…

Throttle Slides: There are several types of throttle slides: Mechanical linkage, vacuum, diaphragm, and cable. Disassembling the jet needle from the slide is not always required for cleaning. If you have vacuum piston type throttle slides (large diameter solid metal slide), avoid cleaning the lubrication from sides and caps. If piston type check cap vents and passageways with air. Clean if necessary and re-lube. If you have rubber vacuum throttle diaphragms, inspect for dry rot, defects, and tears by gently stretching rubber away from center. Do this until all areas around diaphragm have been inspected. Replace any defective part as described above. Clean carb body areas around diaphragm including air passageways and air jets. Diaphragms have a locator loop or tab fabricated into their sealing edge. Observe this locator upon reassembly. Avoid pinching the diaphragm when reinstalling caps.

Fuel Screws: Fuel screws have sharp tapered ends. Carefully turn one fuel screw in while counting the turns until it seats lightly. Warning: These screws are very easily damaged if over tightened into their seats. Record amount of "turns-in" and remove the fuel screw, spring, washer, and o'ring. The fuel screw is part of the enrichment (choke) circuit...clean passageways as described above. When carbs are assembled, spray low PSI compressed air into diaphragm air vents located at intake side of carbs. Throttle slides should rise, then fall when air is removed. Lightly lube external moving linkages. Reinstall carbs and follow through with carburetor synchronization.

Throttle Cables: Lubricate cables periodically. If cables are disconnected from carbs or removed for replacement, etc . . . remember cable routing and ensure proper reinstallation routing. Avoid bread-tying, sharp bends, and pinching cables. Adjust cables so throttle grip has about 5mm of play or throttle slides or butterfly valves may not open completely (full throttle)(wide full open).

Float Bowls: Inspect float bowls for sediment, gum or varnish, crystallization, and defects. Clean all pipes, tubes, passageways, and embedded jets with cleaners and compressed air. Remove and clean the drain screw and area. Inspect bowl gasket and replace if necessary. Clean and inspect overflow pipes and tubes, look for vertical cracks.

Floats: There are several types of float materials: plastic, brass, black composite, tin, and others. Handle floats carefully. Avoid bending, twisting, denting, or other means of mishandling. Most floats are adjustable by bending a small metal tab near the float axle end. Do not change the float adjuster tab unless tuning fuel service levels. Clean metal floats by soaking or by spraying cleaner and wiping clean. Other material type floats may require replacement if cleaning is necessary. Inspect the needle valve (float valve) and seat. Check needle valve’s spring loaded pin. It should depress and return smoothly and without resistance. Check the needle valve tip for a worn groove. Replace needle valve and seat if either symptom exists. The valve and valve seat wears together and must be replaced as a set.

Synchronization: This is a fine adjustment performed usually and preferably with the carbs installed and the engine running. The unusual part is performed with gauged wire with the carbs on the workbench. Carburetor synchronizing balances Venturi vacuum at the exhaust side of each carburetor, resulting with smooth idling and optimized performance at all throttle openings. Synchronization is checked using a set of gauges. Gauge sets are available in air vacuum type, liquid mercury type, and steel rod type. The Morgan Carb Tuner II is the most accurate tool in my opinion. Mercury vapors are toxic and Mercury is a hazardous material. The gauges are connected to vacuum ports on the intake manifolds via nipple tubes or if sealed with screws, sync gauge adapters will be needed. With the engine running at temperature, and with a fan or means of forced convection aimed onto the engine, the carbs fuel screws and idle are adjusted, then the synchronization is adjusted via adjustment screws on the carbs. A reserve fuel tank is recommended for convenience of accessing carbs during this procedure. See gauge instructions and repair manuals for detailed use of synchronization gauges.

Notes: While carbs are apart, record the jet sizes. Look for a very small number imprinted on the body of the jets. Verify that numbers are the same for all jets on models with in-line cylinders. A few transverse-4 models and V-engines, the inner and outer carbs use some different size jets. It is important to note jets sizes and locations. If you have dial or veneer calipers, measure and record float heights. Perform measurements with floats just touching needle valves, though not depressing the needle valve rods. Replace fuel and vacuum hoses. Be sure to use fuel rated hose for fuel. Install or replace in-line fuel filters. It’s a good time to remove and clean interior petcock fuel filters. Inspect carb manifolds for dry rotting; inspect all clamps and air ducts. Inspect, clean, lube, and/or replace air filter(s).
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tommytuttle



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys!! Big help.. I'm printing all this off and taking it to the cottage with me.

That is an excellent description for the carb cleaning. I guess I will figure out how they come out. I imagine it won't be too difficult to figure out.

I had a suggestion from someone else that it might be an antisyphon device in the tank, so I'm going to try that as well.

Regardless I think I will do the seafoam treatement first as it could probably use a good cleaning, then new plugs, then check the antisyphon if it is still an issue I will pull the carbs off and take a look.

If all that fails I'll give you a update.

Regardless I'll report back.

Thanks
Tom
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boatScotty
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:03 pm    Post subject: Evinrude 140 VRO running issues Reply with quote

Tom,

Looks like you have a plan! You could need a manual for the carb cleaning if you remove them.
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MikeW
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:41 am    Post subject: Engine cutting out. Reply with quote

Hello Tom, I was reading about your problems. Have you determined if you are losing spark? It doesn't sound like a fuel problem. Usually a fuel problem does not cause a sputter or miss. When the engine is missing and you pull the plug wires off are you seeing a strong spark on all cylinders?
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tommytuttle



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point, the problem has been intermittent, no I haven't checked but I will make that my first check next time.

Thanks for the thought. If it was a spark problem is their a coil, or I guess the CDI could be going on it. I did pull some of the plug caps off the one time I had the problem, it didn't seem to change. I don't know if that was a result of a spark issue or simply the cylinders were not firing due to no gas.

Thanks for your thought I will check it out.

Tom
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MikeW
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:24 am    Post subject: Engine miss Reply with quote

Hello tommy, It sounds like you may have a power pack going bad. Try what I suggested and get back to us.

Sierra online parts locator
http://www.go2marine.com/productcenters/sierra/
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tommytuttle



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is involved in a new powerpack. Are they pricey?, difficult to replace, is this comon?
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Captain Walker
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:27 am    Post subject: 1985 140 VRO Powerpack replacement Reply with quote

Go2marine can get that part for you

Mike W
1-800-998-9508
ask for part number 113-3072
Mike will talk you through what you need to do/know

http://www.go2marine.com/category.do?no=17252


about $120 and should only take 10-15 minutes to replace.
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tommytuttle



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick update.

Ran the motor on a separate tank and it ran perfect. No problems.

So that leads me to think that the problem may be the intake from the built in tank, the antisyphon valve or could it be the primer ball?

Than anti syphon that was previously mentioned, I guess that would be on the intake into the motor, likely on the tank side of the valve?

Any suggestions on how to clean out and inspect a built in tank.

There is an access cover in the floor, then 3 fittings and pipes. One is obviously the filler, the smaller a vent and the third a pick up to the motor, there is a valve on the top of the third which has a strait handle and is rusty (I've gently tried to turn the valve but will not move).

I guess by best option is to just open the largest fitting, and syphon out all the gas, but how do I pick up all the debris in there? I guess some type of vacume would be good can this be done with a shop vac? Any suggestions
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MikeW
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:21 pm    Post subject: Hello Tommy Reply with quote

Hello Tommy, I have run into the problem of fuel starvation before. Usually it is a gradual decline in rpm not a miss. Anyway, I suggest you spin out the fitting going into the fuel tank. A long pick up tube will come out with it. Most of the pick up tubes have a check ball in them. It could be sticking or the tube may be clogged. Clean it out install it and see if that cures the problem.
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tommytuttle



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you think it is more likely to be electronics?

How would I check the powerpack? is there a specific test?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:14 pm    Post subject: Engine miss Reply with quote

Hello Tommy, let’s back up. You said it ran fine on a separate source of fuel. Did you pull the fuel pick up tube out? Power packs can be difficult to test when having an intermittent problem. Buying a replacement is the simple solution if you don't have a fuel problem.
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